ARGH.

[naodrith]

Thank God for mistful.

It's nice to know that I am not alone in being unable to keep my characters in control.

Joseph: Hornblower was a good show.
Zacharias: Yes, yes it was.
Joseph: Oh, I know! Since I'm supposed to be executed anyway, and God (figuratively speaking) only knows why I wasn't in the first draft, how about that finally happens?
Zacharias: Okay! And I will angst about, act tragic, and then tragically take the blame!
Joseph: And then Lasa and I can plan a jail break!
Zacharias: Only it doesn't work!
Joseph: We're brilliant. We should so be writing this story.
Nae: I refuse to kill either of you off. Because I am incapable.
Seth: Oh, and you can kill me off?
Nae: YOU'RE IN A DIFFERENT STORY SO SHUT UP.
Seth: No, really. You kill off most of the cast in my story. Including me. And I'm the cute one.
Zacharias: Good point. Good point. If he can die, why can't we?
Joseph: I'm the suicidal one here. Remember that, Zac, okay?
Nae: I DON'T LIKE WRITING DEATH SCENES.
Zacharias: And yet somehow, torture and near-fatal injuries come easily.
Nae: Yes. Precisely.
Seth: *wistfully* I wish she was actually writing my story.
Joseph: We come first. We're actually being rewritten and maybe someday published.
Zacharias: We're going to make Nae a lot of money if she can get over this COMPLETELY CHANGING THE PLOT thing.
Nae: Excuse me? I deleted three characters and added a few plot points. YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE ME KILL YOU. STOP. I DON'T NEED ANY MUSES.
Joseph: But our ending needs work!
Nae: As Pyrae so gently pointed out, everyone dying DOES NOT WORK. Nor does ambiguity.
Zacharias: But everyone dying would be realistic!
Nae: I know. Pyrae said that, too.
Seth: Why don't you ever listen to Pyrae?
Nae: Because...because...because that involves...you know...listening.

In conclusion: Woe, I am never going to finish this story. Maybe I really should just go write the Holy Trilogy. Somehow it's much easier to keep the angst to a minimum when I know everyone dies anyway, if that makes any sense at all.

In the thirty minutes I have been online, I have gotten five junk emails. FIVE.

No, I cannot be bothered to put italics on anything. IS THAT OKAY?

I did find my Indigo Girls CD. But I didn't listen to it because of a series of events which took up my entire night and prevented me from doing anything else on the list.

Pyraepyraepyraepyrae, when can we watch Don Juan DeMarco? It is good. I swear. And you said you would watch it. But when? I have time. I have all the time in the world. Except that I really should be writing something. And now I must go work on my skirt. Farewell, adieu, I don't even know what I'm saying anymore.

Comments

You really do need muses.

[lyra-vega-05.livejournal.com]

Against your wishes, I am inclined to disagree with your previous argument to Zac. Although you yourself are a good writer you need help. Obviously you are a good writer and your characters are right about the publishing thing, but you need to listen to people.

The fact that you even considered killing off Zac,(four times, I think) means you need to reevaluate their priorities.

Just because Zac is allergic to cat hair, peanuts, dust, and something else does not mean that is an escape route for your writing.

I know what your thinking. "What. I never thought about killing Zac off completely. Even if you are writing the SEQUEL does not mean i killed him off. And I'm pretty sure he only fake died three times. And I don't need a muse."

Yes. That is exactly what you are thinking so stop. I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but sometimes you are a bit to power-hungry when it comes to Zac.

Take a break.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Hannah-Chan thinks the same thing, although don't tell her I said that, cause she might tell Doug and he might get mad at me.

Adios, mi amigo.

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Hi5!

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

No.

It is up to you to figure out what I'm answering "no" to.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing that I should be using italics. Am I right? Do I win?

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

LYRA WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO PYRAE?

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Er. Technically, yes, that was what I meant. Only because I personally prefer italics and I know you are lazy.

I'm busy tonight and tomorrow. Dunno when we're going to have a chance to watch the movie.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

You really do need muses.

Do you know what Muses make me do? Muses make me kill characters. Muses make me shoot them, torture them, poison them. Muses tell me how amazingly angsty this is, and that it's a good thing. I should think that that argument above is explaining that I certainly do not need any more, and indeed, should kill off some of mine.

Against your wishes, I am inclined to disagree with your previous argument to Zac. Although you yourself are a good writer you need help. Obviously you are a good writer and your characters are right about the publishing thing, but you need to listen to people.

I do listen to people. Zac would be dead right now if I hadn't listened to Pyrae. I suspect that I was joking at the end of that convo. You can tell because of all the ellipses.

The fact that you even considered killing off Zac,(four times, I think) means you need to reevaluate their priorities.

What priorities? I confess that I do not understand your point there.

Just because Zac is allergic to cat hair, peanuts, dust, and something else does not mean that is an escape route for your writing.

Let me get one thing straight, here. I do not regard character death as an escape route. I would never kill off a character unless I truly felt that it was the right thing to do. I would never kill them off because I felt that someone ought to die. I killed Thomas because he was my tragedy figure - he was my beloved child who didn't understand and died for his mistakes.

People die. It's the truth. And I felt (and still feel) that the truest ending for Zacharias would be if he died. It's not like he has anything to live for, anyway, except Joseph. Joseph was (and is) my only reason for keeping Zac alive - because they need each other. They are lovers in the truest sense of the word. People can be lovers without ever having or wanting to have sex. Joe and Zac are exactly that, and without one there cannot be the other. If that wasn't true, I would kill Zacharias, because it would be right. But it is true, and it isn't right, and thus I am tormented because Zac keeps telling me that he should die but I know that he can't because Joseph needs him. You see the dilemma?

I know what your thinking. "What. I never thought about killing Zac off completely. Even if you are writing the SEQUEL does not mean i killed him off. And I'm pretty sure he only fake died three times. And I don't need a muse."

Yes, I did think about killing him off completely. I thought about it a lot. He only "died" twice, and one of those times was his own choice. I explained about Muses above.

Yes. That is exactly what you are thinking so stop. I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but sometimes you are a bit to power-hungry when it comes to Zac.

Not sure what you mean by power-hungry. Please elaborate.

Take a break.

I did. I took a whole month. I'm going to do this right this time. That means listening, not to Muses, but to the Legion. And I try, I do. But ultimately, this is my story. These are my characters. This is my preciousss, and I will do what I think is the proper thing to do. I've been noticing, in the comments, that no one's doing anything particularly useful anymore. Just a lot of "Zac shouldn't wear glasses" and "What happened to this plot point/character?" and "Okay, I'm confused." And, with the exception of that last, that is not useful. It amuses me, but I can't use it.

I still don't know about Zacharias. I suspect I won't know until I reach that point again. Ultimately, though, it is my baby. It is my story. If I take a break, I will burn out. It has happened a million times over. Ask my old characters, trapped in the "Ideas" folder. Ask my fangirls, who waited almost a year for the conclusion of "Let Go."

If I take a break, this will never get published. And I'm not doing that again. Sooner or later I am going to get it right. But my right might not be your right, and you're going to have to square with that someday.

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

I'm quite the same as I've always been, thank you.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

You busy on Saturday?

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

The question is not about your right. It's about the publisher's right, as that's what really matters if you ever want to see any of your work in print.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

You said "Hi5." That is not right.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

I don't think so but I couldn't say for sure yet.

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

That's more Tony's influence than anything else, and that's because he's always around. Dude. I just realized how freaky that is.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I do. But ultimately, I write for me. And however delighted I would be by a bestseller, if I didn't feel that it was right, that it worked, I could never be happy with it. And if I'm not happy with my writing, then there's no point doing it anymore, is there?

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

There is a fine line to walk there.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I know. That's what tortures me. It's just all so - I don't know - hard. Writing is never hard when I do it for me. Sometimes it takes forever, but it isn't hard. But when I try to write what everyone says works - it doesn't work. It just isn't working anymore. I wish that I had never created the Legion. I wish it was still just you and me. I miss that. I'm so tired. I haven't written in three days but I'm so tired of it. I don't want to do this anymore.

It's like, I loved this world and these characters when I started out. And I still love them but everyone else keeps telling me how to make them better, but I don't want them better. Because their better is not my better. I never asked for what's happening in the story now. It's the product of people pushing me for new chapters.

I think I'm going to stop, Pyrae. I think I'm going to go back to wherever I stopped using only you for beta-ing, and scrap everything and start again. I think that could work.

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Whatever you feel will work. Deadlines can be nice; being pushed for more than you can manage rarely helps.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

NaNo helped.

The Legion didn't.

I feel much better now.

Re: You really do need muses.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Becaue NaNo gives deadlines but doesn't send people to whine about when characters are going to do things you don't intend for them to do.

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

[(Anonymous)]

my turn to put my 2 cents in
DONT KILL SETH

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

It must be done for reasons which I cannot iterate here.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

I recommend not giving away spoilers to non-betas.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

Elishabet is one of my betas. She is my weepy beta. I wuv her.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

She is a don't-do-what-you-feel-you-should-do beta.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

Well, so are you, to a point. No one feels that I should kill Zac, but I do.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Well, okay then. Let's hear why you think he should die. I haven't read far enough to understand and I know even less about the revised edition. Why do you feel it's necessary?

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I said a lot of it in the post, I think.

I guess it's mostly because he's so worn out by the end. He's been tortured, running on pure adrenaline for weeks and possibly months. He doesn't even want to live, he just wants it all to be over. But the thing is, it would never be over for him. He keeps having this amazing luck that has nothing to do with how good of a spy he is, even though everyone (in the story, hopefully not the readers) assumes that "best Codebreaker" means "best spy." But he's an intellectual. He didn't mean to get involved, and he can't get out, and it's going to kill him. It wouldn't be a war story if he survived. He was doomed from the moment Jen found him, and it just feels cheesy and cliche and wrong to me if, after everything, he turns out to be such a Gary Stu that he can overcome everything the war has thrown at him.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Hmm.

Okay, I can see that. I suppose the reason I'd have objections to it is because it ends the story on such a depressing note--does anyone actually get anything out of it? If Zac dies, Joseph's sort of screwed. Lasa doesn't seem to get anywhere. I think you have to show that they did something worthwhile, that the story wasn't completely pointless--people ran around and in the end none of it really mattered...well, I guess if you're shooting for that kind of story it works. But I think someone (not necessarily Zac, especially not him if it doesn't feel right) has to have a better future because of everything the main characters did.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

That's the thing, I think. Basically, whatever happens, America is screwed. Separation and the New Constitution saved it for awhile, but whatever happens in the story, America's doomed. We lost two hundred years of development to the Pax Americana, and there's no way to catch up. It was a tragic and fatal mistake and it shouldn't have happened and can't be fixed.

All I can hope for, I guess, is to show that everyone who survives the war has at least a little while of good times, and leave the reader to the delusion that maybe everything would be okay, even though a little bit of deep thought would show that it can't be.

God, I'm depressed now.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

I don't see why it can't ever be better. Nothing is doomed eternally like that; there's always a fix, even if it takes a thousand years to find and implement it.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

If America gets the technology back, its enemies will see a repeat of the events that led to the War in the first place, and with their extremely-advanced technology, will take out America in the way that should have been done right at first.

If the technology is kept out but freedom is given back, eventually some idealistic geek will start to campaign for a return to technology, and the same thing happens, somewhat belated.

The only way America can be saved, I think, is if the other countries end the War and bring about the Pax Tierra before that happens. Which, I guess, would be nice, but wouldn't be a part of my story, anyway.

I just love talking about Pax-whatevers. See what reading newspaper editorials does to me?

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

So there is a way. You don't know exactly if it'll happen or not but the country is not unchangeably doomed. If it is, the whole story will basically be paraphrased into: Things bad. People try to fix. People fail. Things worse. DEATHDOOMDESTRUCTIONAPOCALYPSE. The end.

Sure, you could do that. But it's awfully fatalistic and the world isn't like that.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm shooting for is more like this: Things bad. People try to fix. People accidentally start a war. People weep about how terrible this mistake is. People accomplish what they set out to do, but there's still that little problem of the war. Things are, possibly, even worse than they used to be. People try to fix new situation. Lots of people die, not all of them main characters. The war ends, more or less. Things better, but not perfect, because life is not perfect and never will be. The end.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Yet the ending as you're explaining it isn't "Better but not perfect," it's "Better except not really."

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I never really liked my original ending and I haven't got to the second one yet. What I think I'm trying for is not necessarily a "quick fix" to all of America's problems. I want it to be obvious that things are, indeed, better, but that there are still things that the heroes couldn't fix, and other people are going to have to fix them. I want Lasa's story (and all the stories bound up with hers) to be, more or less, over. But I don't want everything to be over because that's not realistic.

I also don't want to leave it so open-ended that I can be talked into a sequel.

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Ew. Quick fixes are bad. I like what you described here. Definitely aim for that.

Re: You really do need muses.

[lyra-vega-05.livejournal.com]

Okay chill out. First of all you are poswer hungry in the only sense there is.

Next, it's true no good comments are coming out except badminton!!!! and i'm confused but try and find out why they are confused. and whats so wrong with badminton, you should really talk to heather and ask her whats her deal with raquetball.

she needs to stop crossing out raquetball, and putting badminton.


and to the rest i'd rather not post it because i have some really strong words for you in 4th hour, and i'd rather not be kicked out of chatting.

adios

Re: You really do need muses.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

Okay chill out. First of all you are poswer hungry in the only sense there is.

There are different senses, and I'm not understanding what you mean in this particular situation.

i have some really strong words for you in 4th hour, and i'd rather not be kicked out of chatting.

But you didn't use any words! You just read all class! ARGH.

[naodrith.livejournal.com]

Well, are you busy tonight, then?

[pyrae.livejournal.com]

Definitely. Stargate episodes from 5:00 to 10:00, how could you fail to notice? I won't know about tomorrow until later tonight.

Re: You really do need muses.

[lyra-vega-05.livejournal.com]

I have done nothing. Don't blame me for her mood changes